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Tan OGF more accurate than Secant? - Mountain Molds

Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

454cl
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:36 pm

Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

Postby 454cl » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:19 pm

I have 5 molds made by you and the Tan OGF molds are more accurate than the Secant mold I had made.I think the Tan OGF are fitting the chambers better and starting out straighter due to the bullet being snug in the throat and centering themselves with the bore.They are shooting so well in my revolvers that I'm convinced its the way to go.I guessed the perfect fit in my 41 mag ruger bisley hunter and it shoots 2 inch groups at 75 yards.You can feel the bullets squeeze in slightly when chambered.Would you turn your .358 180 grain secant mold to a Tan OGF by recutting the nose.I would like to lenghten the front band from 80 thou to 90 thou and leave the nose length and metplat the same.That would make for a tighter fit and improve accuracy in my revolver and 357 Marlin I think.The .358 185 grain Tan OGF GC mold you made drops bullets that are shooting so well in my Marlin 357 its amazing.I think the PB Secant mold would do the same if recut to Tan OGF.Would be great not to have to use gas checks.I ordered a 45 cal Tan OGF bore-rider last week for my 454 casull and could send the Secant mold to you in the box it came in and if you will recut the secant mold it could be sent back with the new 45 mold if you want to.I will gladly pay you for the extra work involved.Using your molds have been well worth the time and money and I really like the accuracy.I take my handgun hunting seriously and see that tight fitting cast bullets can and do shoot as well or better than jacketed bullets.If you are too busy I understand.Being able to design your own mold is a great help.

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mtngun
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Re: Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

Postby mtngun » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:54 pm

Let me think about that and get back to you. I don't like to do special requests because if I charged a fair shop rate, say $50 an hour, it would be cheaper for you to buy a new mold. However, I am not that busy right now and might humor your request providing you agree to post a detailed range report on the bullet before and after.

There is no doubt that adding bearing length generally increases accuracy, however, there is more than one way to add bearing length.

The secant is normally used for lever guns with tight throats (does not apply to most 357's) or wheelguns with tight throats like the FAs.

454cl
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:36 pm

Re: Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

Postby 454cl » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:57 am

It probablt would be better to have another mold made.If I ordered another 357 mold could it be shipped with the 45 mold I ordered last week.I could do a better and more detailed test of the designs.I would like to try a 3 band design on a 357 Tan OGF PB mold to see if that makes a better bullet compared to the 2 band secant with a large lube groove.I think I can learn how to post pictures and it would be fun and informative.I'd have 3 different types of bullets and the groups could show how they compare as far as accuracy.The 185GC OGF will be hard to beat. I would have ordered it with the 45 mold but I thought the better half would be mad if I got 2 molds but now she must be in a good mood.Better get another one before I do something to make her mad at me.I can always sell one later on if I don't need 3.

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mtngun
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Re: Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

Postby mtngun » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:30 pm

OK.

I've only casually played with PB bullets in my Marlin, and only in the 160 grain weight, but it didn't shoot them well at all.

454cl
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:36 pm

Re: Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

Postby 454cl » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:57 am

I didn't have much luck with the 180 secant until I heat-treated them in the oven at 450 degrees for an hour and then emersed them in ice cold water.With 13.4 grains H-110 they started shooting well.I neck size my brass to make a tight fit in the chamber and crimp lightly with a redding profile crimper.I don't have any problems reducing the bullets diameter and they hold the bullet well and helps with ignition of the H-110 powder.My Marlin likes H-110 and CCI 550 primers with the heavy 180 and 185 bullets.I got it to shoot well with the lyman 358156 and 2400 but it didn't feed well.The 180 secant shoots well with 7.2 grains unique in my S&W model 27 printing 3 inch groups at 50 yards.I have found that PB bullets in 357 mag are very fussy and hard to find the sweet spot that makes them shoot well.But after much experimenting with different powders and primers I finally did get the secant to shoot with the above loads.I think the 190 Tan OGF PB I designed will do better since it will be slightly closer to the lands and heavier than the 185 GC.It will be fun and interesting to see if I can get the 190 PB to shoot in my 357 mags.One thing that I like about the secant is that it feeds and cycles very smooth and fast and shoots around an inch at 50 yards.If it wasn't for seeing the half inch groups of the GC bullets I probably would think there wasn't room for improvement.I think I might be getting hooked on that little levergun because I'm trying to turn it into a bench gun.It sure looks good with the octagon barrel also.

454cl
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:36 pm

Re: Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

Postby 454cl » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:52 am

100_0776.jpg
Marlin 357 with Mtn Mold Bullets 185GC OGF on left,180 PB Secant on right 50 yards 3 shot groups
100_0776.jpg (38.46 KiB) Viewed 6289 times

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mtngun
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Re: Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

Postby mtngun » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:46 pm

Thanks for posting the targets. Nice shooting.

With the cost of gas checks these days, you can't blame a guy for trying to make a plain base bullet work.

If I were serious about PB in the Marlin, I'd try 200 grains. Velocity might only be 1600 fps, but 200gr./1600fps would still be fine for woods hunting.

I lightly crimp for the Marlin, just enough to tuck the case mouth into the groove so the cartridge will feed smoothly. No point working the brass any more than necessary. I seem to remember doing an experiment with crimp in the Marlin and didn't see a difference in standard deviation. But I use full snuff loads and my bullet engraves lightly when chambered.

454cl
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:36 pm

Re: Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

Postby 454cl » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:47 am

I think you are right that a 200 grain bullet would be a better choice.It would have thicker bands,increased bearing length,better ignition due to the heavier weight when using H-110 and the lower velocity would help prevent leading.When I put in 200 grains on the online design everything did look better.If it is still possible I would like to increase the weight to 200 grains and keep all the other specs the same.Then I would have a 180 and a 200 grain PB mold.I wish I would have waited for your input.A 200 grain PB bullet is what I should have ordered.I've already sent in a order for a 190 PB mold.Can the mold be changed to a 200 grain PB mold if you haven't started on it yet.

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mtngun
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Re: Tan OGF more accurate than Secant?

Postby mtngun » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:34 pm

Sure. 200 grains it will be.


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