lube grooves

Ricardo1950
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lube grooves

Post by Ricardo1950 » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:28 pm

I've been trying to duplicate a 280gr. WFNGC for the .45 Colt that I have.
The dimensions are: .453 dia., .672 O.A.L., .400 N. to C., & .370 meplat.
When I enter these figures and check straight shank for Hornady gas check the program removes the lube grooves. I've tried
changing the G to B and it still does not create lube grooves. What am I doing wrong?

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mtngun
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Re: lube grooves

Post by mtngun » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:23 pm

I don't think you can get there from here.

I'm guessing this is one of Beartooth's designs ?

The measurements on the Beartooth site are not reliable. I would suggest checking all the measurements yourself. What does the bullet actually weigh (and bear in mind that Marshall uses WW + 2% tin) ? How long is the bullet ? Determine the crimp-to-nose by measuring a loaded cartridge, and subtracting your case length.

Beartooth claims their 280 gr. wfngc feeds in a Marlin 1894, yet a stock 1894 will not feed a 0.400" crimp-to-nose. Makes me wonder ...... :?:

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Re: lube grooves

Post by jwp » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:12 pm

For what it's worth, the SAAMI length specifications for .45 Long Colt are:

Loaded cartridge maximum overall length: 1.600 inches
Empty case length: 1.285 inches

That implies that the crimp-to-nose length should be a maximum of 0.315 inches. I have no idea if that has any relationship to the realities of commercial ammunition, cast bullet length (commercial or home made), a Marlin's feeding ability, what fits a Model 25 cylinder, or anything else. But personally I wouldn't expect anything with an OAL greater than 1.600 inches (whatever the nose-to-crimp length) to work in the Marlin or anything else; it might work in some things, but I wouldn't expect it to.

Ricardo1950
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Re: lube grooves

Post by Ricardo1950 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:12 pm

I have the exact bullet in front of me. Exact dimensions are: .4525" dia., .7015" O.A.L., .340" nose to TOP of crimp groove,and .370" meplat.
Weight is 277grs. lubed and gas checked ready to go.
It is a Beartooth bullet.

Ricardo1950
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Re: lube grooves

Post by Ricardo1950 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:14 pm

Forgot to mention Cartridge O.A.L. is 1.613"
Plenty of room in the Blackhawk.

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mtngun
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Re: lube grooves

Post by mtngun » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:57 pm

OK, now we are in business.

Plug in a 0.340" nose, WW + 2% tin, a shank no longer than 0.100", a 0.080" long front band, and a 0.8 GtoB. The Beartooth photo is not very helpful, but I guessed at the front band and the GtoB by looking at the photo.

I'm guessing the Beartooth has a puny crimp groove -- so let's go with a 0.045" long crimp groove, since you are trying to duplicate the Beartooth, warts and all.

That'll get you on track with a lube groove. Fine tune the design to your taste.

Bear in mind that the program's OAL does not include the gas check thickness, typically 0.013".

Meplats are very difficult to measure, and most people tend to err on the large side, putting the calipers on the edge of the nose instead of on top of the nose. But, I am not going to try to second guess your measurements because I do not have a bullet in my hand.

Personally, I would go with a shorter nose, a smaller meplat, and straight wheelweight -- but then it wouldn't be a Beartooth design.

So much for the numbers on the Beartooth website. I've been down this road before.

Ricardo1950
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Re: lube grooves

Post by Ricardo1950 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:31 pm

Not married to the design. Just wanted to see if I could duplicate it with your program.
The .412 265 LNGC came out fine. Could be the .450" nose to crimp.
For the .45 Colt I'm looking for a bullet of approx. 280 grs. Velocity 900-1100, with a GC and a good meplat for hunting.

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mtngun
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Re: lube grooves

Post by mtngun » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:54 pm

Some of the LBT bullets (and Beartooth bullets are not necessarily authentic LBT bullets) have itty bitty bands that my program will not allow. Your 280 grainer's small bands were borderline for my program.

I used to cut smaller bands but they are difficult to cut, sometimes difficult to cast, and customers would try to turn them into a microgroove style which doesn't work well because my grooves are much deeper than a microgroove bullet.

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