Winchester 405

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Winchester 405

Post by skunkmarshal » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:53 pm

Mountain Molds strikes again! After floundering around with "not right" cast bullets for an original Win 95 in 405 (DOM 1904)... I used MM's online bullet design feature and took a stab at designing a cast bullet to do justice to this cartridge and gun. The bore is excellent and the groove diameter is .415. The original bullets for this smokeless cartridge were jacketed soft points with a somewhat long, roundnose. Most of the so-so available cast bullets/molds either don't drop a bullet the right diameter, are the wrong design, wrong weight or something.

A couple days ago I received the mold from Dan. Today cast up 50 bullets. As is routine :) right on the money to my specs (the bullets drop at .417 and weigh 318 gr.) I seated the GCs, sized, pan lubed and loaded a few for range testing. Just a mild smokeless load of 5744. Checked for function and chambering in the rifle... perfect. Now the final test at the range on Monday... weather permitting. :roll:
Update 1-20. Have gone to range twice to test this bullet. So far very good results. No leading and good stability (perfect round holes in paper & cluster groups). Alloy BHN is about 10.
First chrono range session. Mean MV = 1150 and group size at 50 yds = .95.
Second chrono range session. Mean MV = 1475 and group size at 50 yds = .92.

The pic shows a lubed bullet and loaded round- ready to go
MM 405 Win.jpg
MM 405 Win.jpg (76.26 KiB) Viewed 9617 times
Last edited by skunkmarshal on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Winchester 405

Post by mtngun » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:44 pm

Thanks for sharing the nice photo.

Well, if they cycle and chamber, that is half the battle in a lever gun. You obviously did your homework. Well done.

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Re: Winchester 405

Post by skunkmarshal » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:15 am

I've found in the Winchester 95s that they are fairly forgiving of bullet/nose design- unique in the lever guns. Not unlike a single stack, push feed, magazine bolt gun... since the cartridge is held more nearly in line with the chamber as it sits ready for push into the chamber. Now we'll see about accuracy at the range (crossed fingers).

Of course the 405/Win 95 is capable of high lever gun velocity. That may be the challenge with my cast bullet design and/or alloy. I know it should shoot very well maybe up through 1500-1600 fps. But, getting to full potential of 1800-2000 fps is the unknown??

Added a pic of an original factory 405 WCF JSP RN round ca 1910. This general design (as nearly as I could eyeball it and incorporate it using the MM design capability :) ) was used for the cast bullet design I ended up with. Seems this profile was used by both UMC and WRA for the 405 in the early 1900s.
405 WCF original.jpg
405 WCF original.jpg (48.52 KiB) Viewed 9587 times

405 WCF
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Re: Winchester 405

Post by 405 WCF » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:47 am

Very interesting!
That is a very nice bullet you got there.

I have an old original Winchester 1895 in 405 WCF.
Barrel slug .413
The barrel is not in perfect shape.
Some pitting, and after what I can feel, a little tight spot just were the rear sight is placed.

The rifle is accurate with jacketed bullets, but when it comes to cast, that #%¤&# rifle wont shoot.
I have a RCBS .416-350-FN mold that drop very nice bullets, but the results I get is just a lot of lead in the barrel, and very, very bad accuracy.

I have allso sized down the RCBS bullets to .407 and paper patched them, but the results are still very bad.

Now to my quest:
In my mind, it is the barrel that is the problem, but, is there a chance that a perfect bulletconstruction, with a perfect fit to the chamber, can be accurate in my rifle?

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Re: Winchester 405

Post by skunkmarshal » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:15 pm

405 WCF,

I have found that accuracy potential is related to bore condition. It may not be the only story but it is major. I only have one of the old rifles with a sad bore. It is a Win 1885 in 32-40. I piddled around with it with cast and found that a fairly hard and heavier than normal cast bullet driven a little faster than normal let it shoot well. Cleaning (mining) lead after each range outing is still no fun. :|

I'm really just "shooting in the dark" as far as this design for the 405. I know a similar design in a couple of different weights has worked extremely well in my Sharps 45-70 and 45-110. My 405 shoots the 300 gr Hornady JFP really well and does well with a cast bullet I've gotten from Montana Bullet Works- probably similar to the one you're talking about.

I think you can still get yours to shoot well with cast. Just don't know about the tight spot. That may cause more problem than the general bore condition. I don't think there is a magic bullet design that would overcome some bore conditions??? Might just try something way different, within prudent pressure limitations and see what happens. Like different powder, bullet hardness, weight, bullet diameter and so on. Anyhow best of luck.

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